Quote from lil chick on July 2, 2019, 5:16 pm

Gosh that does sound very hard.

Quote from Bella on July 2, 2019, 5:57 pm

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 3:51 pm

Quote from lil chick on July 2, 2019, 3:21 pm

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 2:28 pm

My Blood sugars were great when I was getting sun.  Vitamin D really helps them  Since this asthma flare I have not been able to even walk much, so they have been not great.  I am definitely a mouth breather when the asthma is upon me.  Type 1s tend to be extreme.  They drink more coffee, drink more alcohol, are more easily depressed.  Basically all adds up to be more of an addictive personality in whatever you are doing.

So dude, you need to be fixing your sugars!    That would be my numero uno.  

Next week I wanna hear your progress on getting those sugars good!

ps:  I almost feel like 30 years ago they did a better job of teaching my loved one how to get his sugars RIGHT than they do now.

No that is not numero uno.  Breathing>blood sugars.

Good blood sugars are about having good rhythm in life...same food...same sleep time...same exercise, etc.  If I only sleep for 3 hours a night because I can barely breathe, my rhythm gets pretty dang unregulated.  Blood sugars will be fine, just as they were fine before, when I get back to breathing.

Good triage! I’m interested in your X-ray results.

Quote from ggenereux on July 2, 2019, 6:33 pm

Hi tar,

Thanks for posting your update and detailing your setbacks.

As I am sure you know, you are not alone. Other people have reported a same cycle. The best I can make of it right now is that as we keep to a low vit A intake the more retinyl esters are back flowing from the liver into circulation. That scenario is supported by a few studies, and at least one person has recently confirmed that with their own blood tests. The retinyl esters are more toxic than plain retinol, and are also more water soluble too.

So, no, it is definitely not due to a vitamin A deficiency. But, why and how it’s happening is just speculation at this time. It could be due to the liver simply starting to recover from being “unnaturally fatty” and becoming more lean. With that, more retinyl is more rapidly being released. Or maybe with the right combination of proteins and other nutrition the body is able to mobilize it out quicker?

I too don’t like the term “detox” being applied to this condition. It is too vague, and implies that we should just tough it out. Of course, I view this condition as extremely serious, and I’d love to know what’s really going on here. What’s so strange to me is that some people have sailed past the one and even two-year mark on this diet and have not reported such a “detox” phase. I was thinking of doing a Survey to see if we can spot a pattern. Except, I know that does not help you right now.

All I can do is share my thoughts on it. Firstly, it has become very clear to me now that the RBPs (retinol binding proteins) are not at all “transport” molecules. Rather they are antibodies to the retinol toxin. As such, it is going to be important to have the resources needed to build more of them faster while in this “detox” phase. Likewise, the same goes for the alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes. Therefore, zinc is important. Then for the eventual disposal of the RBPs, having adequate dietary salts is going to be critical. Supplementing with vitamin C probably can’t hurt either. Then on the other side of it, you’d not want to add any extra load on the liver at this time with too high an intake in fats, or vitamin E.

Grant

 

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 8:26 pm

Quote from Bella on July 2, 2019, 5:57 pm

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 3:51 pm

Quote from lil chick on July 2, 2019, 3:21 pm

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 2:28 pm

My Blood sugars were great when I was getting sun.  Vitamin D really helps them  Since this asthma flare I have not been able to even walk much, so they have been not great.  I am definitely a mouth breather when the asthma is upon me.  Type 1s tend to be extreme.  They drink more coffee, drink more alcohol, are more easily depressed.  Basically all adds up to be more of an addictive personality in whatever you are doing.

So dude, you need to be fixing your sugars!    That would be my numero uno.  

Next week I wanna hear your progress on getting those sugars good!

ps:  I almost feel like 30 years ago they did a better job of teaching my loved one how to get his sugars RIGHT than they do now.

No that is not numero uno.  Breathing>blood sugars.

Good blood sugars are about having good rhythm in life...same food...same sleep time...same exercise, etc.  If I only sleep for 3 hours a night because I can barely breathe, my rhythm gets pretty dang unregulated.  Blood sugars will be fine, just as they were fine before, when I get back to breathing.

Good triage! I’m interested in your X-ray results.

Xrays came back clean.  No Pnem No Valley Fever.  Lungs look great they say

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 8:34 pm

Quote from ggenereux on July 2, 2019, 6:33 pm

Hi tar,

Thanks for posting your update and detailing your setbacks.

As I am sure you know, you are not alone. Other people have reported a same cycle. The best I can make of it right now is that as we keep to a low vit A intake the more retinyl esters are back flowing from the liver into circulation. That scenario is supported by a few studies, and at least one person has recently confirmed that with their own blood tests. The retinyl esters are more toxic than plain retinol, and are also more water soluble too.

So, no, it is definitely not due to a vitamin A deficiency. But, why and how it’s happening is just speculation at this time. It could be due to the liver simply starting to recover from being “unnaturally fatty” and becoming more lean. With that, more retinyl is more rapidly being released. Or maybe with the right combination of proteins and other nutrition the body is able to mobilize it out quicker?

I too don’t like the term “detox” being applied to this condition. It is too vague, and implies that we should just tough it out. Of course, I view this condition as extremely serious, and I’d love to know what’s really going on here. What’s so strange to me is that some people have sailed past the one and even two-year mark on this diet and have not reported such a “detox” phase. I was thinking of doing a Survey to see if we can spot a pattern. Except, I know that does not help you right now.

All I can do is share my thoughts on it. Firstly, it has become very clear to me now that the RBPs (retinol binding proteins) are not at all “transport” molecules. Rather they are antibodies to the retinol toxin. As such, it is going to be important to have the resources needed to build more of them faster while in this “detox” phase. Likewise, the same goes for the alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes. Therefore, zinc is important. Then for the eventual disposal of the RBPs, having adequate dietary salts is going to be critical. Supplementing with vitamin C probably can’t hurt either. Then on the other side of it, you’d not want to add any extra load on the liver at this time with too high an intake in fats, or vitamin E.

Grant

 

Thank you for your response Grant, and taking the time to read my story.  I may convince my doc to test my vitamin A levels and have a second source of test info for us.  If my levels are high, wouldn't that be so telling?

I have to imagine there will be some type of drug developed to deal with this "detox" if that is what it is.  I wonder if you can supply RBP exogenously?  Just ruminating.

I hiked Havasupai falls last September.  Around 10 miles in and 10 miles out.  I had some decent lung function then.  I could not do it now, probably not since October when I did the high dose vitamin D test.

You have probably talked to a lot of people going through this.  Do you see cases where people go down the slope of detox, suffer, and then come up the other side, better and happier for it?  Do you see cases where people go down into the pit, never to come up...at least not yet?

I would be curious what the numbers look like.  Everyone is always up for detox until they learn it may be years.  I remember going through a hair mineral testing practitioner who said it may take 15 years to get all the heavy metals detoxed out of me.  I ran! Ha!

Thanks again

Quote from tar on July 2, 2019, 8:54 pm

Quote from ggenereux on July 2, 2019, 6:33 pm

Hi tar,

Thanks for posting your update and detailing your setbacks.

As I am sure you know, you are not alone. Other people have reported a same cycle. The best I can make of it right now is that as we keep to a low vit A intake the more retinyl esters are back flowing from the liver into circulation. That scenario is supported by a few studies, and at least one person has recently confirmed that with their own blood tests. The retinyl esters are more toxic than plain retinol, and are also more water soluble too.

So, no, it is definitely not due to a vitamin A deficiency. But, why and how it’s happening is just speculation at this time. It could be due to the liver simply starting to recover from being “unnaturally fatty” and becoming more lean. With that, more retinyl is more rapidly being released. Or maybe with the right combination of proteins and other nutrition the body is able to mobilize it out quicker?

I too don’t like the term “detox” being applied to this condition. It is too vague, and implies that we should just tough it out. Of course, I view this condition as extremely serious, and I’d love to know what’s really going on here. What’s so strange to me is that some people have sailed past the one and even two-year mark on this diet and have not reported such a “detox” phase. I was thinking of doing a Survey to see if we can spot a pattern. Except, I know that does not help you right now.

All I can do is share my thoughts on it. Firstly, it has become very clear to me now that the RBPs (retinol binding proteins) are not at all “transport” molecules. Rather they are antibodies to the retinol toxin. As such, it is going to be important to have the resources needed to build more of them faster while in this “detox” phase. Likewise, the same goes for the alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes. Therefore, zinc is important. Then for the eventual disposal of the RBPs, having adequate dietary salts is going to be critical. Supplementing with vitamin C probably can’t hurt either. Then on the other side of it, you’d not want to add any extra load on the liver at this time with too high an intake in fats, or vitamin E.

Grant

 

I forgot.  If I get blood tests, which ones should I get?  Vitamin A in serum?

Also, you didn't mention Lecithin.  Have you received any good feedback on it?  That is one thing I have not tried.

Quote from collden on July 3, 2019, 1:26 am

Couple of thoughts

If your symptoms are mostly allergy/asthma-related, this pollen season has been reported to be the worst in many years, I've got several acquaintances complaining that their allergy flare-ups are much worse this summer and they are not doing low-VA diets.

Also perhaps some of us are being a little overzealous with doing things that increase VA metabolism like exercise, heat, sun exposure. If I'm not mistaken Grant himself for his recovery didn't do anything except eliminate intake of VA and maybe this is better to allow your body to handle the elimination of VA at a safe pace rather than trying to provoke its destruction.

Quote from bludicka on July 3, 2019, 2:04 am

Before low VA diet I had very low immune system and chronic cough and nasal drip - is now completly gone. I think, this vitamin A toxicity somehow blocks the function of zinc in the body. In the past I had  heavy metals problem too... It took me nine years to chelate mercury, copper, lead and arsenic...  I had lyme and coinfections, candida, adrenal fatigue, hormonal problems, leaky gut and mineral imbalances... oxalate toxicity.  It can be very difficult to solve the health problems in long-term ill people, man does not know what causes what, there may be several causes of your condition, not just vitamin A toxicity. The progress is slow for me (the first two months oxalate dumping) but I know I am on the the right track because there are improvements.  I no longer risk sunbathing and avoid the sun, but when I walk for a long time - I have no capacity for exercise, the outside is warm and I sweat a lot, the next 4-5 days my symptoms are worse again and the symptoms are worse with very low-zero VA diet, again the known pressure pain in the brain, demotivation, fatigue, memory problems, bone and muscle pains, nausea, weakness, pains in the right shoulder,  hair loss, OCD - intrusive thoughts, low back pains,  not sleeping well, increased thirst, loss of appetite, itching skin.
But if vitamin A toxity is the ONLY cause of your problems, you should definitely feel improvements after a few months, if not, you should look for other causes.
You did Coimbra protocol, my friend now took vitamin D daily 10 000 IU and nearly collapsed from the magnesium deficiency, you need cofactors with vitamin D - magnesium, some people calcium too,  zinc, vitamin K, boron, C, B6, B2 but the most important is magnesium. If you start high vitamin D doses with very low magnesium reserves, vitamin D depletes magnesium very fast.
" Severe magnesium deficiency can lead, among other things, to a variety of dysrhythmias, seizures, muscle weakness, and mental status changes, various endocrine dysfunctions, but also to bronchospasm and respiratory failure. " or here magnesium and asthma: http://www.annclinlabsci.org/content/35/4/423.full

Quote from bludicka on July 3, 2019, 2:25 am

And VA low diet -  white rice, beef, beans is low in magnesium....if you are deficient, only beans may not be enough.