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What is going on here
I have the impression that the course of symptoms after going on VA elimination diet can be very unpredictable as the elimination triggers the body to start shifting the VA around. There is a case study of a 14-year old girl who took ~150,000IU/day for about a year, and developed signs of liver failure only 2 months after starting the low-VA diet.
Quote from collden on July 3, 2019, 2:45 amI have the impression that the course of symptoms after going on VA elimination diet can be very unpredictable as the elimination triggers the body to start shifting the VA around. There is a case study of a 14-year old girl who took ~150,000IU/day for about a year, and developed signs of liver failure only 2 months after starting the low-VA diet.
I had irregular liver and gallbladder pains three months after I started low VA diet... Only now they are completly gone. After sunbathing I had liver pains, once I took a spoonful of hemp oil - high in carotens, liver pains again.
I am just ruminating here, not implying that you should do a certain course of action.
But why is it that half of my overweight friends are trying keto, but none of my type 1 friends are trying keto?
In the olden days before insulin... it was the sole course of action. I looked at a few sites trying to find data on whether keto for type 1 is a great idea, but scientists seem pretty baffled.
Personally I have tried low carb and ultra low carb and I didn't like it because for me it ended up "not enough calories". I lost too much weight. But I have said before that if I had type 1 or epilepsy I'd probably try it.
My type 1 loved one is uninterested in keto. I asked him about asthma keeping you awake-- and he agreed that you need to solve the asthma and that "sometimes with diabetes you do everything right and it doesn't work".
There are one or two people here who have gone carnivore, if I'm not mistaken. How did that go? I seem to remember Matt Stone posting a picture of a healthy-looking carnivore family and saying "hey look, they don't eat vitamin A and they still have eyes!"
Quote from collden on July 3, 2019, 1:26 amCouple of thoughts
If your symptoms are mostly allergy/asthma-related, this pollen season has been reported to be the worst in many years, I've got several acquaintances complaining that their allergy flare-ups are much worse this summer and they are not doing low-VA diets.
Also perhaps some of us are being a little overzealous with doing things that increase VA metabolism like exercise, heat, sun exposure. If I'm not mistaken Grant himself for his recovery didn't do anything except eliminate intake of VA and maybe this is better to allow your body to handle the elimination of VA at a safe pace rather than trying to provoke its destruction.
Thank you for your thoughts. The allergy season is quite intense this year.
The thing I am wondering about heat and sun and exercise is whether it is actually speeding up detox, or just oxidizing your VA stores and making you worse. In other words, are those things actually provoking its destruction or are you just making yourself feel bad while going through the depletion.
Quote from bludicka on July 3, 2019, 2:04 amBefore low VA diet I had very low immune system and chronic cough and nasal drip - is now completly gone. I think, this vitamin A toxicity somehow blocks the function of zinc in the body. In the past I had heavy metals problem too... It took me nine years to chelate mercury, copper, lead and arsenic... I had lyme and coinfections, candida, adrenal fatigue, hormonal problems, leaky gut and mineral imbalances... oxalate toxicity. It can be very difficult to solve the health problems in long-term ill people, man does not know what causes what, there may be several causes of your condition, not just vitamin A toxicity. The progress is slow for me (the first two months oxalate dumping) but I know I am on the the right track because there are improvements. I no longer risk sunbathing and avoid the sun, but when I walk for a long time - I have no capacity for exercise, the outside is warm and I sweat a lot, the next 4-5 days my symptoms are worse again and the symptoms are worse with very low-zero VA diet, again the known pressure pain in the brain, demotivation, fatigue, memory problems, bone and muscle pains, nausea, weakness, pains in the right shoulder, hair loss, OCD - intrusive thoughts, low back pains, not sleeping well, increased thirst, loss of appetite, itching skin.
But if vitamin A toxity is the ONLY cause of your problems, you should definitely feel improvements after a few months, if not, you should look for other causes.
You did Coimbra protocol, my friend now took vitamin D daily 10 000 IU and nearly collapsed from the magnesium deficiency, you need cofactors with vitamin D - magnesium, some people calcium too, zinc, vitamin K, boron, C, B6, B2 but the most important is magnesium. If you start high vitamin D doses with very low magnesium reserves, vitamin D depletes magnesium very fast.
" Severe magnesium deficiency can lead, among other things, to a variety of dysrhythmias, seizures, muscle weakness, and mental status changes, various endocrine dysfunctions, but also to bronchospasm and respiratory failure. " or here magnesium and asthma: http://www.annclinlabsci.org/content/35/4/423.full
Yes things can take awhile. I was taking Magnesium with the vitamin D, and I was only on the protocol for maybe a month.
I think from what I have read, to paraphrase, the pattern is that at first on low VA, your body rejoices and you feel great for a few months as the VA load is lessened. But then the esthers start being released at which point things turn hairy again.
Quote from collden on July 3, 2019, 2:45 amI have the impression that the course of symptoms after going on VA elimination diet can be very unpredictable as the elimination triggers the body to start shifting the VA around. There is a case study of a 14-year old girl who took ~150,000IU/day for about a year, and developed signs of liver failure only 2 months after starting the low-VA diet.
Really interesting study thank you.
Quote from bludicka on July 3, 2019, 3:00 amQuote from collden on July 3, 2019, 2:45 amI have the impression that the course of symptoms after going on VA elimination diet can be very unpredictable as the elimination triggers the body to start shifting the VA around. There is a case study of a 14-year old girl who took ~150,000IU/day for about a year, and developed signs of liver failure only 2 months after starting the low-VA diet.
I had irregular liver and gallbladder pains three months after I started low VA diet... Only now they are completly gone. After sunbathing I had liver pains, once I took a spoonful of hemp oil - high in carotens, liver pains again.
Quote from lil chick on July 3, 2019, 7:32 amI am just ruminating here, not implying that you should do a certain course of action.
But why is it that half of my overweight friends are trying keto, but none of my type 1 friends are trying keto?
In the olden days before insulin... it was the sole course of action. I looked at a few sites trying to find data on whether keto for type 1 is a great idea, but scientists seem pretty baffled.
Personally I have tried low carb and ultra low carb and I didn't like it because for me it ended up "not enough calories". I lost too much weight. But I have said before that if I had type 1 or epilepsy I'd probably try it.
My type 1 loved one is uninterested in keto. I asked him about asthma keeping you awake-- and he agreed that you need to solve the asthma and that "sometimes with diabetes you do everything right and it doesn't work".
There are one or two people here who have gone carnivore, if I'm not mistaken. How did that go? I seem to remember Matt Stone posting a picture of a healthy-looking carnivore family and saying "hey look, they don't eat vitamin A and they still have eyes!"
Type 1s don't do keto because their experience with ketosis is not a good one. Ask your buddy how it feels when his pump gets discoed in the middle of the night on accident. The way he feels in the morning is ketosis. So we generally avoid it. People on the keto diet are testing their urine for ketones and thinking it's all cool, but type 1s have been testing their urine ketones forever and it usually means your blood sugar is through the roof and you feel like garbo.
Quote from tar on July 3, 2019, 8:47 amQuote from collden on July 3, 2019, 1:26 amCouple of thoughts
If your symptoms are mostly allergy/asthma-related, this pollen season has been reported to be the worst in many years, I've got several acquaintances complaining that their allergy flare-ups are much worse this summer and they are not doing low-VA diets.
Also perhaps some of us are being a little overzealous with doing things that increase VA metabolism like exercise, heat, sun exposure. If I'm not mistaken Grant himself for his recovery didn't do anything except eliminate intake of VA and maybe this is better to allow your body to handle the elimination of VA at a safe pace rather than trying to provoke its destruction.
Thank you for your thoughts. The allergy season is quite intense this year.
The thing I am wondering about heat and sun and exercise is whether it is actually speeding up detox, or just oxidizing your VA stores and making you worse. In other words, are those things actually provoking its destruction or are you just making yourself feel bad while going through the depletion.
Tar you read my mind. I sort of wonder if my sun sessions need to end. My face is AWFUL
I couldn't remember the book, but found this post on reddit about the low carb type-one doctor.
quote: "
Keto acidosis is way different than keto ketones. Promise! I would have died months ago. When my blood sugar shoots up, I use my ketone sticks to double check that I'm not going into acidosis. I went into ketoacidosis when I was 12 and was in a coma. When I'm in keto (I eat 20 net carbs a day.) I get thirsty and my pee smells like cereal, nothing more. (Pay attention to your electrolytes. It's explained on the keto subreddit info.) Talk to your Endo. Mine was all for keto. If you want to learn more before trying keto I suggest reading: https://books.google.com/books/about/Dr_Bernstein_s_Diabetes_Solution.html?id=wpuZxG3VPYsC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button
He's a type 1 diabetic doctor and has been eating low carb/keto for years. His story is really cool. He was an engineer in his younger years but then went back to school and got his medical degree after he felt he wasn't getting the best care possible from his doctors. He answers a lot of questions. I have learned a lot about diabetes even after being one for 25 years now. Good luck! Reach out anytime and I'll try my best to help.
end quote
Hi Tar,
RE: You have probably talked to a lot of people going through this. Do you see cases where people go down the slope of detox, suffer, and then come up the other side, better and happier for it? Do you see cases where people go down into the pit, never to come up...at least not yet?
Yes, there are a few people that I know of that have gone down into this detox condition, and have since made a substantial recovery. However, it has been a very slow turn-around for them, say ~ 6-8 months.
And, yes, there are a few others that I know of that have reported going into this detox cycle and have stopped with the diet.
Grant