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What is going on here
If one of the "jobs" of vitamin A is to color us (like veggies!), I can see how getting a tan might coax vitamin A into motion.
Maybe that is what causes these on-going cycles--the various things that cause A to go into motion. Possibly? Bug bites. Viral or bacterial exposure. A parasite exposure. A burn. Sunlight in the eyes or on the skin. Burns. Menstruation. Poison ivy. Alcohol. Overdoing exercize. Harsh Cold and harsh heat. Allergens. Vaccines?
Sitting in a plastic bubble won't be helpful either and my guess would be the body might over react to small things!
Quote from Orion on July 4, 2019, 6:14 amQuote from ggenereux on July 3, 2019, 5:49 pmHi Tar,
RE: You have probably talked to a lot of people going through this. Do you see cases where people go down the slope of detox, suffer, and then come up the other side, better and happier for it? Do you see cases where people go down into the pit, never to come up...at least not yet?
Yes, there are a few people that I know of that have gone down into this detox condition, and have since made a substantial recovery. However, it has been a very slow turn-around for them, say ~ 6-8 months.
And, yes, there are a few others that I know of that have reported going into this detox cycle and have stopped with the diet.
Grant
Just about to hit 8 months, month to month things improve, but I think I have finally hit a tipping point, see how this month goes.
Thats interesting, you mean this positively, like you are starting to see more rapid improvement now?
Quote from Orion on July 4, 2019, 6:13 amQuote from thomas on July 4, 2019, 5:26 amI keep seeing people saying to go easy with sun
but if sun detoxes VA shouldn't you be getting as much of it as you can??
Purging too much VA with sun could cause issues if you don't have good RBP levels, so zinc status, and possibly taurine levels to keep retinol metabolism pathways functioning at a high rate. It is a vicious cycle...
But I think getting as much sun as possible is very good.
Went sun bathing for 3 hrs today and feel amazing.. I'll continue with an hour or so a day and update
Quote from thomas on July 5, 2019, 2:50 amQuote from Orion on July 4, 2019, 6:13 amQuote from thomas on July 4, 2019, 5:26 amI keep seeing people saying to go easy with sun
but if sun detoxes VA shouldn't you be getting as much of it as you can??
Purging too much VA with sun could cause issues if you don't have good RBP levels, so zinc status, and possibly taurine levels to keep retinol metabolism pathways functioning at a high rate. It is a vicious cycle...
But I think getting as much sun as possible is very good.
Went sun bathing for 3 hrs today and feel amazing.. I'll continue with an hour or so a day and update
That was my plan how to speed up vitamin A detox, every day one hour sun bathing, the first day I felt very good and after five days I was super toxic again. This first year on low VA diet I will avoid the sun but I intend to sunbathe every season to have enough natural vitamin D to keep the vitamin A more "under control".
One other thing I remembered that is interesting. I used to be able to sun bathe quite a bit longer then this recent month of sun. Back in the day I could lay out for 40-60 minutes before turning a mild red. This last April and May, laying out for even 20 minutes would give me redness, and anything longer started to be a real sun burn.
So bizarre in my mind. How could I handle more sun back when I was consuming egg yolks daily and liver often, but now, when consuming no vitamin A, I burn rapidly. In fact this reminds me quite a bit of how I would burn when on Accutane as a teenager.
Is it possible that eating vitamin A prompts more RBP and now I am making so little as to just be swimming in RA?
Quote from Orion on July 4, 2019, 6:14 amQuote from ggenereux on July 3, 2019, 5:49 pmHi Tar,
RE: You have probably talked to a lot of people going through this. Do you see cases where people go down the slope of detox, suffer, and then come up the other side, better and happier for it? Do you see cases where people go down into the pit, never to come up...at least not yet?
Yes, there are a few people that I know of that have gone down into this detox condition, and have since made a substantial recovery. However, it has been a very slow turn-around for them, say ~ 6-8 months.
And, yes, there are a few others that I know of that have reported going into this detox cycle and have stopped with the diet.
Grant
Just about to hit 8 months, month to month things improve, but I think I have finally hit a tipping point, see how this month goes.
If you are feeling pretty good, how are you responding to sun, heat and exercise?
Yes feeling very good, getting full body sun tanning is doing me good now, it does seem to cause subtle flares in the skin, which heal very quickly(small red bumps, where acne would have formed), I have much better tolerance to heat, and I do the gym 5 days a week. Strength and endurance seem to be much better, sleep still needs improvement, but wake up refreshed.
Quote from collden on July 5, 2019, 1:12 amQuote from Orion on July 4, 2019, 6:14 amQuote from ggenereux on July 3, 2019, 5:49 pmHi Tar,
RE: You have probably talked to a lot of people going through this. Do you see cases where people go down the slope of detox, suffer, and then come up the other side, better and happier for it? Do you see cases where people go down into the pit, never to come up...at least not yet?
Yes, there are a few people that I know of that have gone down into this detox condition, and have since made a substantial recovery. However, it has been a very slow turn-around for them, say ~ 6-8 months.
And, yes, there are a few others that I know of that have reported going into this detox cycle and have stopped with the diet.
Grant
Just about to hit 8 months, month to month things improve, but I think I have finally hit a tipping point, see how this month goes.
Thats interesting, you mean this positively, like you are starting to see more rapid improvement now?
Yes I think finally getting full body summer sun tanning is doing great things, winter and spring here were bleak!
Quote from tar on July 5, 2019, 6:20 amOne other thing I remembered that is interesting. I used to be able to sun bathe quite a bit longer then this recent month of sun. Back in the day I could lay out for 40-60 minutes before turning a mild red. This last April and May, laying out for even 20 minutes would give me redness, and anything longer started to be a real sun burn.
So bizarre in my mind. How could I handle more sun back when I was consuming egg yolks daily and liver often, but now, when consuming no vitamin A, I burn rapidly. In fact this reminds me quite a bit of how I would burn when on Accutane as a teenager.
Is it possible that eating vitamin A prompts more RBP and now I am making so little as to just be swimming in RA?
I think of it like this, with VA flowing in, you are in storage mode, VA is being packed away in storage form(retinol, retinyl).
But when taking accutane (retinoic acid), or on depletion diet, you are in reverse, VA flows out, to flow out it needs to be converted to retinoic acid. Active VA; retinoic acid is why you are burning.
I was noticing something about the white part of my eyes. It is only yellowed in the areas where sun/wind/ice goes.
As a homesteader my eyes are out there, every day: blizzard, ice storm or bright, blasting hot August. You have to see to work.
Here is my theory: the body sends vitamin A to protect the vulnerable part eye (time after time). Some A gets left behind, because (for whatever reason) my body has been sluggish about cleaning it up. Hard crusty areas (surfers eye) forms. The eye feels "dry/itchy/inflamed".
With sunning the last 6 weeks, I've seen sudden vascularities form in the surfer's eye. The next day they are gone.
Last night my sore, dry nose kept itching, and I kept smoshing it hard to relieve the itch. All night awake with more shmoshing and more rubbing. Eventually I had to hypnotize myself to stop myself smoshing. After a time, the itching stopped. As Grant said in his book "it's the scratch that itches".
IMO inflammation of any type (including sun, pollen) might be hard on these hypersensitive areas. But to try to live in a bubble isn't the answer, either.
The whites of my eyes have gotten whiter, btw.
Quote from Orion on July 5, 2019, 6:30 amQuote from tar on July 5, 2019, 6:20 amOne other thing I remembered that is interesting. I used to be able to sun bathe quite a bit longer then this recent month of sun. Back in the day I could lay out for 40-60 minutes before turning a mild red. This last April and May, laying out for even 20 minutes would give me redness, and anything longer started to be a real sun burn.
So bizarre in my mind. How could I handle more sun back when I was consuming egg yolks daily and liver often, but now, when consuming no vitamin A, I burn rapidly. In fact this reminds me quite a bit of how I would burn when on Accutane as a teenager.
Is it possible that eating vitamin A prompts more RBP and now I am making so little as to just be swimming in RA?
I think of it like this, with VA flowing in, you are in storage mode, VA is being packed away in storage form(retinol, retinyl).
But when taking accutane (retinoic acid), or on depletion diet, you are in reverse, VA flows out, to flow out it needs to be converted to retinoic acid. Active VA; retinoic acid is why you are burning.
Yeah that seems like a plausible explanation given what we are seeing...but man things are rarely as they seem.
My girlfriend has an auto immune. She is not onboard with this low vitamin A thing yet. She eats eggs, spicey foods, and whatnot. The whites of her eyes are super clear, like porcelain. She sleeps like a baby. Damn confusing. If I were to convincer her of this vitamin A madness, would she descend into red eyed misery?